Discussion:
Mini DV tape: wet...dry...don't mix the two?
(too old to reply)
Ty Ford
2005-12-22 12:46:11 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised to stick with
either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic) lubricated tapes but never to switch
because combining the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside the
transport. Any thoughts on this?

I happened to start with Sony, If the warning has merit, are there other wet
tapes in addition to Sony? Is there a "best " tape quality wise?

Thanks,

Ty Ford



-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Richard Crowley
2005-12-22 14:39:50 UTC
Permalink
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised
to stick with either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic)
lubricated tapes but never to switch because combining
the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside the
transport. Any thoughts on this?
I happened to start with Sony, If the warning has merit,
are there other wet tapes in addition to Sony? Is there a
"best " tape quality wise?
Here is what I consider to be the definitive summary
on the subject...

" From: "Dimitri P." <see-***@for-email.see>
" Subject: Re: Mini DV tapes
" Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:39 AM
"
" > Is it true that most mini-DV tapes are made in the
" > same factory,
"
" Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
"
" miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
"
" Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
"
" TDK are on their own since they have their own ME
" (Metal Evaporate) Facilities.
"
" In other words, mixing these 3 brands will clog the heads.
" why the manufacturers hide this, I really don't know.

I use Sony camcorders and use Sony tape exclusively.
And I insist on the people at the office doing the same.
But the important aspect isn't Sony camcorders and Sony
tape, but consistently using either Sony-style liquid
lubricated tape or Panasonic-style dry lubricated.

IMHO, "best quality" in the digital world means the
most reliable storage and retrieval of the ones and
zeros. There are no "degrees of wonderfulness"
or "coloration" when it comes to digital tape, whether
we are talking about video or audio.

There are most certainly differences in the lens and
the image pickup parts of a camcorder which affect
"quality" bigtime. Exactly the same as the choice of
microphone, preamp, A\D converter affect the quality
of a digital audio recording. But once it is in the
digital domain, the only thing that counts is the accurate
storage and retrieval of the ones/zeroes.

Of course, the "Real World" (including tape and tape
transports) are "analog" and depend on things like tape
lubrication to counteract friction, etc.
AnthonyR.
2005-12-22 19:06:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised to stick with
either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic) lubricated tapes but never to switch
because combining the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside
the transport. Any thoughts on this?
I happened to start with Sony, If the warning has merit, are there other
wet tapes in addition to Sony? Is there a "best " tape quality wise?
Here is what I consider to be the definitive summary
on the subject...
" Subject: Re: Mini DV tapes
" Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:39 AM
" " > Is it true that most mini-DV tapes are made in the " > same factory,
" " Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
" " miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
" " Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
" " TDK are on their own since they have their own ME " (Metal Evaporate)
Facilities.
" " In other words, mixing these 3 brands will clog the heads. " why the
manufacturers hide this, I really don't know.
I use Sony camcorders and use Sony tape exclusively.
And I insist on the people at the office doing the same.
But the important aspect isn't Sony camcorders and Sony
tape, but consistently using either Sony-style liquid
lubricated tape or Panasonic-style dry lubricated.
IMHO, "best quality" in the digital world means the
most reliable storage and retrieval of the ones and
zeros. There are no "degrees of wonderfulness"
or "coloration" when it comes to digital tape, whether
we are talking about video or audio.
There are most certainly differences in the lens and the image pickup
parts of a camcorder which affect "quality" bigtime. Exactly the same as
the choice of microphone, preamp, A\D converter affect the quality of a
digital audio recording. But once it is in the digital domain, the only
thing that counts is the accurate
storage and retrieval of the ones/zeroes.
Of course, the "Real World" (including tape and tape transports) are
"analog" and depend on things like tape lubrication to counteract
friction, etc.
Richard,
Thanks for the simple breakdown.
Now my question is, I have been using TDK ME miniDV tapes for a while now
since I get them cheap in Costco. Never had a problem so far but...now I am
worried because a lot of my early miniDV tapes are Sony. I haven't played
them in years but do want to eventually transfer them over into PC and then
newer TDK tapes.
How likely will this cause a head clogging problem for me?

And is there a procedure I can follow?
For example, play Sony tapes, then use a head cleaning tape, then start with
TDK again?

Thanks for any suggestions.

AnthonyR.
PTRAVEL
2005-12-22 19:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by AnthonyR.
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised to stick with
either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic) lubricated tapes but never to switch
because combining the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside
the transport. Any thoughts on this?
I happened to start with Sony, If the warning has merit, are there other
wet tapes in addition to Sony? Is there a "best " tape quality wise?
Here is what I consider to be the definitive summary
on the subject...
" Subject: Re: Mini DV tapes
" Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:39 AM
" " > Is it true that most mini-DV tapes are made in the " > same factory,
" " Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
" " miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
" " Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
" " TDK are on their own since they have their own ME " (Metal Evaporate)
Facilities.
" " In other words, mixing these 3 brands will clog the heads. " why the
manufacturers hide this, I really don't know.
I use Sony camcorders and use Sony tape exclusively.
And I insist on the people at the office doing the same.
But the important aspect isn't Sony camcorders and Sony
tape, but consistently using either Sony-style liquid
lubricated tape or Panasonic-style dry lubricated.
IMHO, "best quality" in the digital world means the
most reliable storage and retrieval of the ones and
zeros. There are no "degrees of wonderfulness"
or "coloration" when it comes to digital tape, whether
we are talking about video or audio.
There are most certainly differences in the lens and the image pickup
parts of a camcorder which affect "quality" bigtime. Exactly the same as
the choice of microphone, preamp, A\D converter affect the quality of a
digital audio recording. But once it is in the digital domain, the only
thing that counts is the accurate
storage and retrieval of the ones/zeroes.
Of course, the "Real World" (including tape and tape transports) are
"analog" and depend on things like tape lubrication to counteract
friction, etc.
I have used TDK on rare occassions when I couldn't find Sony. I had no
problems, but don't take this as a guarantee. If you're going to mix tape
brands, you might consider running a head cleaner through your camera before
you switch.
Post by AnthonyR.
Richard,
Thanks for the simple breakdown.
Now my question is, I have been using TDK ME miniDV tapes for a while now
since I get them cheap in Costco. Never had a problem so far but...now I am
worried because a lot of my early miniDV tapes are Sony. I haven't played
them in years but do want to eventually transfer them over into PC and then
newer TDK tapes.
How likely will this cause a head clogging problem for me?
And is there a procedure I can follow?
For example, play Sony tapes, then use a head cleaning tape, then start with
TDK again?
Thanks for any suggestions.
AnthonyR.
Richard Crowley
2005-12-22 19:39:04 UTC
Permalink
"AnthonyR." wrote ...
Post by AnthonyR.
Now my question is, I have been using TDK ME miniDV tapes for a while now
since I get them cheap in Costco. Never had a problem so far but...now I
am worried because a lot of my early miniDV tapes are Sony. I haven't
played them in years but do want to eventually transfer them over into PC
and then newer TDK tapes.
How likely will this cause a head clogging problem for me?
And is there a procedure I can follow?
For example, play Sony tapes, then use a head cleaning tape, then start
with TDK again?
Disclaimer: I have not done this myself, but have heard it
recommended from several reliable sources:

If I had several "different" tapes to capture, I would:
1) Run the head cleaning cassette.
2) Capture all the "different" tapes as a batch
3) Run the head cleaning cassette again before going back
to my "usual" tapes.

Note that many of the head cleaning cassettes cause
unusually greater wear on the heads, and use should
be limited to actual need. They are not a "preventive
maintenance" tool. At least that is what repair techs
have said. But in the case of temporarily switching
from dry to wet (or vice-versa), the benefits outweigh
the downside.

Back in the heyday of VHS, there were two different
kinds of head cleaning cassettes. One type wanted you
to "wet" the "tape" with cleaning solution of some kind
and the "tape" was white and looked like "non-woven
synthetic cloth". The other type was "dry" and used
unusually abrasive "tape" to "scrub" the guides, heads,
etc. The only kind of head cleaning cassettes I've seen
for DV is the "dry/abrasive" kind. This would appear
to account for the warning against gratutious use.

I will admit that I use the occasional (1~2%) TDK
cassettes from Costco and have never had a problem,
even without running the head cleaning cassette.
AnthonyR.
2005-12-24 14:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"AnthonyR." wrote ...
Post by AnthonyR.
Now my question is, I have been using TDK ME miniDV tapes for a while now
since I get them cheap in Costco. Never had a problem so far but...now I
am worried because a lot of my early miniDV tapes are Sony. I haven't
played them in years but do want to eventually transfer them over into PC
and then newer TDK tapes.
How likely will this cause a head clogging problem for me?
And is there a procedure I can follow?
For example, play Sony tapes, then use a head cleaning tape, then start
with TDK again?
Disclaimer: I have not done this myself, but have heard it
1) Run the head cleaning cassette.
2) Capture all the "different" tapes as a batch
3) Run the head cleaning cassette again before going back
to my "usual" tapes.
Note that many of the head cleaning cassettes cause
unusually greater wear on the heads, and use should
be limited to actual need. They are not a "preventive
maintenance" tool. At least that is what repair techs
have said. But in the case of temporarily switching
from dry to wet (or vice-versa), the benefits outweigh
the downside.
Back in the heyday of VHS, there were two different
kinds of head cleaning cassettes. One type wanted you
to "wet" the "tape" with cleaning solution of some kind
and the "tape" was white and looked like "non-woven
synthetic cloth". The other type was "dry" and used
unusually abrasive "tape" to "scrub" the guides, heads,
etc. The only kind of head cleaning cassettes I've seen
for DV is the "dry/abrasive" kind. This would appear
to account for the warning against gratutious use.
I will admit that I use the occasional (1~2%) TDK
cassettes from Costco and have never had a problem,
even without running the head cleaning cassette.
Richard, PTravel thanks for replies and comments.
Sounds good to me, one head cleaning shouldn't hurt much between
using the older sony tapes and the tdk I use now.

Perhaps this was done to keep brand loyalty high, as fear of head clogging
is a good incentive to keep buying the same brand tapes IMHO.
:)

Happy Holidays everyone!

AnthonyR.
Ty Ford
2005-12-23 16:01:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised
to stick with either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic)
lubricated tapes but never to switch because combining
the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside the
transport. Any thoughts on this?
I happened to start with Sony, If the warning has merit,
are there other wet tapes in addition to Sony? Is there a
"best " tape quality wise?
Here is what I consider to be the definitive summary
on the subject...
" Subject: Re: Mini DV tapes
" Date: Monday, December 23, 2002 3:39 AM
"
" > Is it true that most mini-DV tapes are made in the
" > same factory,
"
" Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
"
" miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
"
" Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
"
Thanks so much for this.

So, if it's not Fuji, Maxell, JVC or Canon...what the heck is left? :)

Put another way, what other brand has wet lubrication?

Regards,

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Richard Crowley
2005-12-23 16:18:56 UTC
Permalink
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
So, if it's not Fuji, Maxell, JVC or Canon...what the heck is left? :)
Put another way, what other brand has wet lubrication?
Well, according to Dimitri P., all other brands are OEMed
by Sony and use liquid lubricant. OTOH, I can't imagine why
I would use any of those brands, so it is a rhetorical question
and of little concern to me in my world.
Ty Ford
2005-12-23 20:16:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
So, if it's not Fuji, Maxell, JVC or Canon...what the heck is left? :)
Put another way, what other brand has wet lubrication?
Well, according to Dimitri P., all other brands are OEMed
by Sony and use liquid lubricant. OTOH, I can't imagine why
I would use any of those brands, so it is a rhetorical question
and of little concern to me in my world.
persactly!

Ty Ford


-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
2005-12-23 20:34:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
So, if it's not Fuji, Maxell, JVC or Canon...what the heck is left? :)
Put another way, what other brand has wet lubrication?
Well, according to Dimitri P., all other brands are OEMed
persactly!
Ty Ford
Been down the pub for xmas, Ty Ford ? ;-)))

Cheers !
Neil <hic>
Ty Ford
2005-12-24 14:04:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
Post by Ty Ford
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
So, if it's not Fuji, Maxell, JVC or Canon...what the heck is left? :)
Put another way, what other brand has wet lubrication?
Well, according to Dimitri P., all other brands are OEMed
persactly!
Ty Ford
Been down the pub for xmas, Ty Ford ? ;-)))
Cheers !
Neil <hic>
Never left....aren't I still there?

Ty

-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Mr. Tapeguy
2005-12-25 17:05:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised
to stick with either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic)
lubricated tapes but never to switch because combining
the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside the
transport. Any thoughts on this?
" Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
"
" miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
"
" Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
"
" TDK are on their own since they have their own ME
" (Metal Evaporate) Facilities.
"
" In other words, mixing these 3 brands will clog the heads.
" why the manufacturers hide this, I really don't know.
.
IMHO, "best quality" in the digital world means the
most reliable storage and retrieval of the ones and
zeros. There are no "degrees of wonderfulness"
or "coloration" when it comes to digital tape, whether
we are talking about video or audio.
All,

With respect to some of the analysis here there are some inaccuracies.

Sony and TDK do indeed make their own tape. Panasonic does also do
most of the OEM for other brands. JVC is not one of them although
their formulation is chemically similar to Pansonic's so for all
practical purposes, it can be considered like Panasonic but it is now
less expensive because they make their own.

First of all, there are quality differences in DV tape just as there
are in any other tape. Density of oxide particles, strength of the
binder, quality of cassette mechanism and specifications of the tape
all figure into it. In the tape world, the most critical
specifications are dropout, coercivity and retentivity. We all know
what dropout is. Coercivity, oversimplified, is the ability to attract
a magnetic signal and retentivity, also oversimplified, is the ability
to retain it. All of these factors go into consideration of the
quality of the tape.

We carry the various consumer brands (cheaper than Costco by the way)
but only professionals know about higher grade professional tapes.
These tapes are made only by Sony and Panasonic.

Sony has a two-tiered consumer line, the PR and the EX/EXM. These are
the same formulation and differentiated only by the selection process
(more explanation below). Recently added was a higher-grade tape
designed for HD use, the Sony DVM63HD. They also have a professional
line which is really considered DVCAM but is of course compatible with
mini DV and this includes the PDVM-40N/ME and the Digital Master
PDVM-40DM recently named PHDVM-63DM for marketing high-definition usage
purposes. The DVCAM and HD tapes, are qualitatively, better tapes,
offering significantly better specifications not the least of which is
dramatically lower dropout.

Panasonic, likewise, has both consumer and professional products but
all under the "DV" monicker as they haven't paid a license to use the
DVCAM logo although they tout their pro tapes as a DVCAM equivalent.
The consumer line is EJ and XJ and unlike Sony, these are different
formulations. In the professional line for some time we have had the
PQ (Professional Quality) and the MQ (Master Quality), which is soon to
be discontinued in favor of the more expensive AMQ (Advanced Master
Quality). NOTE: Buy MQ's while you can, they will be gone soon we are
told and the AMQ is much more. The formulations of the EJ-PQ and XJ-MQ
are similar but not only is the selection process different but the
shell, mechanism and quality control. THe AMQ is a new bird.

JVC does make consumer, high grade and pro but their higher grade
offerings are overpriced compared to Panasonic.

Here's how tape is made: it is produced in large sheets which are then
inspected and slit into the appropriate widths. In situations where
ONLY the selection process determines what the product is (i.e. not a
different formulation) the product on the ends and sides goes to
consumer as it is less consistent. The product in the middle is more
likely to exceed spec and be "the cream of the crop" and goes to either
pro or high grade as the case may be.

People often ask us which tape is best. Well, Sony mini DV tape is a
consumer product. A consumer product does not generally perform well
against the pro and coincidentally, repair facilities tell me they have
more issues with Sony tape than any other. A quick cost comparison
will reveal the cost of a Panasonic consumer tape is well below that of
a Sony and for about the same price as Sony consumer you can get
Panasonic Pro; furthermore for LESS than the cost of the Sony "high
grade" EX you can get the Panasonic MQ. Better tape, lower price.
Done deal.

Now about wet vs. dry: No one is trying to cover this up. The real
disaster happened early in the days of mini dv when Sony shipped a
bunch of camcorders with one tape and then had no supply. Everyone had
to buy Panasonic tape and then disaster occurred. Since that time the
manufacturers have worked together to alleviate the problem -- after
all, you can choose what you put in your camcorder but if you're making
dubs for others, you don't get to choose what tape they use. So, the
problem is much less of an issue than it ever was.

Still, we always recommend that if you must switch tapes, run a head
cleaner through first. If you have been using one brand for a long
time, also try to run one pass of the new tape to acclimate your heads
to the new version. I often recommend this process for switching from
Sony EX to the Panasonic MQ. We did both Videomaker shows, DV Expos,
Showbiz and WEVA for 10 years and I've had this conversation more times
than I can count and never has anyone come back to me with a complaint
despite a specific invitation to do so.

You can buy any of the consumer varieties for less than $2.50 except
for Fuji I think and the Sony is a little more too. If you want to
step up for a buck more you can get the Pansaonic Pro and while they
last, Panasonic Masters for your critical applications are under $5.
If you are going HDV you may want to consider AMQ or Sony DVCAM or
consumer HD tape.

It is important to remember that dropouts in digital are not like
dropouts in analog where part of your signal is still there. Much like
the digital cell phone service we all have to endure now (Crystal clear
when it's there but often NOT) digital signals, when lost enough to go
beyond the ability of the machine's error correction, are very very bad
- pixelated, blocky messes that can't go unnoticed. In HDV they are
even worse. So if your project is one of importance, use a
qualitatively better product...a bad piece of tape can ruin your shoot
just as easily as a problem with the most expensive camcorder so don't
skimp the couple of bucks on lower-grade products unless your use isn't
critical.

Hope that helps!

cb

www.pro-tape.com
Richard Crowley
2005-12-25 18:21:51 UTC
Permalink
"Mr. Tapeguy" wrote ...
Post by Mr. Tapeguy
With respect to some of the analysis here there are some
inaccuracies.
Sony and TDK do indeed make their own tape. Panasonic
does also do most of the OEM for other brands. JVC is not
one of them although their formulation is chemically similar
to Pansonic's so for all practical purposes, it can be considered
like Panasonic but it is now less expensive because they make
their own.
....

"Mr.Tapeguy" may very well be a nice guy and an honorable
vendor. However, the information seems remarkably similar
to the kind of sales "propaganda" provided by the vendors of
the tape brands he sells. Vendor information may sometimes
be "optimized" to make the writer's products seem more
desirable than the competition's. :-)

I own/use both DVCAM and mini-DV cameras both at home
and at the office, and I use ordinary-grade genuine Sony
mini-DV tapes in the non-DVCAM equipment. Even when
shooting critical events (like a 10-minute window with the
CEO), our experience with consumer-grade Sony mini-DV
tapes is good enough that we couldn't justify buying the
"high-grade" stuff. Certainly I use Sony DVCAM tape in
my DSR-300 camcorder, as much for the tape length as
for anything else. Since DVCAM (and DVCpro) run at 1.5x
linear speed, you need the extra length of DVCAM tapes to
get the rated running times.

Our practice is to record on camera tapes ONCE and then
to catalog and archive the tapes because the content is worth
far more than the cost of the tape. Perhaps those who reuse
their tapes over and over may need the higher-grade tapes
to avoid dropouts the 5th or 10th time the tape is re-used?

Mr. Tapeguy's prices for at least DVCAM tapes look pretty
good and I may switch to using him, since my local source
is sometimes flaky and difficult to deal with. But when he
makes statements like an Apple computer is preferable for
"serious" video editing, it may be worth considering that he
is an Apple dealer. It is good to see people who are enthusiastic
about their business and their products, but we must all weigh
information against our own requirements and experience
with our own equipment and circumstances.
Mr. Tapeguy
2005-12-26 17:45:32 UTC
Permalink
Richard Crowley wrote:
...
Post by Richard Crowley
"Mr.Tapeguy" may very well be a nice guy and an honorable
vendor. However, the information seems remarkably similar
to the kind of sales "propaganda" provided by the vendors of
the tape brands he sells. Vendor information may sometimes
be "optimized" to make the writer's products seem more
desirable than the competition's. :-)
I understand where you're coming from Richard. Keep in mind that I
myself was a video producer and one of my degrees is in Radio-TV-Film.
I do take the information the manufacturers give me but I also have to
draw my own conclusions and draw from the practical experience of our
customers and our staff, who do both sales and rental.
Post by Richard Crowley
Our practice is to record on camera tapes ONCE and then
to catalog and archive the tapes because the content is worth
far more than the cost of the tape. Perhaps those who reuse
their tapes over and over may need the higher-grade tapes
to avoid dropouts the 5th or 10th time the tape is re-used?
You are correct here. People have sometimes asked since digital is
digital, what difference does it make what kind of tape you use?
Unlike analog, the difference is far less likely to be noticed in the
first generation. If you shoot and playback only once, you are less
likely to have a problem than with reuse. That is not to say you are
not better off using a higher grade tape. They are more resistant to
humidity, dust and physical abuse. The error correction in today's
gear is really quite amazing and covers up for a lot of tape
abnormalities. Still, unless the specs are falsified (and heck, you
can't even get them for consumer tape) I still opt for a higher grade
tape on critical applications and it sounds as though you do to.
Post by Richard Crowley
Mr. Tapeguy's prices for at least DVCAM tapes look pretty
good and I may switch to using him, since my local source
is sometimes flaky and difficult to deal with. But when he
makes statements like an Apple computer is preferable for
"serious" video editing, it may be worth considering that he
is an Apple dealer. It is good to see people who are enthusiastic
about their business and their products, but we must all weigh
information against our own requirements and experience
with our own equipment and circumstances.
First of all, we are also dealers for Pinnacle (now Avid), Avid, Sony
Vegas and other PC-based programs as well as Casablanca. All of them
work pretty well and frankly, I will sell someone any system they
choose. We recommend Apple because of the stability of the OS, lack of
peripheral and IT issues such as viruses and spyware, bang-for-the buck
and their rapidly expanding market share which finds many post houses
including large prominent ones with healthy budgets replacing their old
Avids with FCS workstations. All of the non-linear options including
Canopus and Media 100 have some nice features and usually a couple that
are exclusive and I would say that for certain higher-end applications
and media management Avid still has a slight edge over Apple but we're
talking about very high-end use in larger facilities and spending 2 or
3 times the price to get it and with XSAN, Apple is catching up quickly
and for a lot less money.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that each individual should weigh his
options before making a decision. I do have a bias toward Apple but it
is based on my experience with what people in the industry are doing
and why because frankly, I don't care what people use if they are
successful and happy with it.

cb
doc
2005-12-28 19:23:14 UTC
Permalink
i agree totally. in fact, our experience was to go apple but when we looked
at the limitation of software and hardware, we choose PC because of the
1,000's of options unlike apple/mac configuration. for example, a solution
with an apple requires that one make the purchase within the confines of an
apple/mac dealer but for the same solution there are any number of FREE
options as well as low cost 3rd and even 4th party vendors on the purchase
side. PC is more powerful to for the $$$. everyone screams about a G5 but
fails to note that that it's silly 2 processor computer has been around for
years on the PC side and now there are 4 processor PC's that really kick
some tail. our server on our internet business side has four XEON's in it
and it smokes anything on the market! apple server that would be
comparable? there isn't one.

drd
Post by Richard Crowley
"Mr. Tapeguy" wrote ...
Post by Mr. Tapeguy
With respect to some of the analysis here there are some inaccuracies.
Sony and TDK do indeed make their own tape. Panasonic does also do most
of the OEM for other brands. JVC is not
one of them although their formulation is chemically similar to
Pansonic's so for all practical purposes, it can be considered like
Panasonic but it is now less expensive because they make their own.
....
"Mr.Tapeguy" may very well be a nice guy and an honorable
vendor. However, the information seems remarkably similar to the kind of
sales "propaganda" provided by the vendors of
the tape brands he sells. Vendor information may sometimes be "optimized"
to make the writer's products seem more desirable than the competition's.
:-)
I own/use both DVCAM and mini-DV cameras both at home
and at the office, and I use ordinary-grade genuine Sony mini-DV tapes in
the non-DVCAM equipment. Even when
shooting critical events (like a 10-minute window with the
CEO), our experience with consumer-grade Sony mini-DV
tapes is good enough that we couldn't justify buying the
"high-grade" stuff. Certainly I use Sony DVCAM tape in
my DSR-300 camcorder, as much for the tape length as
for anything else. Since DVCAM (and DVCpro) run at 1.5x
linear speed, you need the extra length of DVCAM tapes to
get the rated running times.
Our practice is to record on camera tapes ONCE and then
to catalog and archive the tapes because the content is worth
far more than the cost of the tape. Perhaps those who reuse
their tapes over and over may need the higher-grade tapes
to avoid dropouts the 5th or 10th time the tape is re-used?
Mr. Tapeguy's prices for at least DVCAM tapes look pretty good and I may
switch to using him, since my local source is sometimes flaky and
difficult to deal with. But when he makes statements like an Apple
computer is preferable for "serious" video editing, it may be worth
considering that he is an Apple dealer. It is good to see people who are
enthusiastic about their business and their products, but we must all
weigh
information against our own requirements and experience
with our own equipment and circumstances.
Ty Ford
2005-12-25 22:30:16 UTC
Permalink
So where does DVM60PRL sit on the spectrum?

Regards,

Ty Ford
Post by Mr. Tapeguy
Post by Richard Crowley
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
I ran across a note on the internet recently that advised
to stick with either wet (Sony) or dry (Panasonic)
lubricated tapes but never to switch because combining
the two types would result in a mixture of gunk inside the
transport. Any thoughts on this?
" Yes. There are only 2 Tape OEMs: Sony & Panasonic
" TDK are TDK.
"
" miniDV tapes are made by either by Sony, Panasonic and TDK.
" Sony uses liquid lubricant
" Panasonic uses dry lubricant
"
" Panasonic makes tapes for: Fuji, Maxell, JVC, Canon
" Sony makes for the rest.
"
" TDK are on their own since they have their own ME
" (Metal Evaporate) Facilities.
"
" In other words, mixing these 3 brands will clog the heads.
" why the manufacturers hide this, I really don't know.
.
IMHO, "best quality" in the digital world means the
most reliable storage and retrieval of the ones and
zeros. There are no "degrees of wonderfulness"
or "coloration" when it comes to digital tape, whether
we are talking about video or audio.
All,
With respect to some of the analysis here there are some inaccuracies.
Sony and TDK do indeed make their own tape. Panasonic does also do
most of the OEM for other brands. JVC is not one of them although
their formulation is chemically similar to Pansonic's so for all
practical purposes, it can be considered like Panasonic but it is now
less expensive because they make their own.
First of all, there are quality differences in DV tape just as there
are in any other tape. Density of oxide particles, strength of the
binder, quality of cassette mechanism and specifications of the tape
all figure into it. In the tape world, the most critical
specifications are dropout, coercivity and retentivity. We all know
what dropout is. Coercivity, oversimplified, is the ability to attract
a magnetic signal and retentivity, also oversimplified, is the ability
to retain it. All of these factors go into consideration of the
quality of the tape.
We carry the various consumer brands (cheaper than Costco by the way)
but only professionals know about higher grade professional tapes.
These tapes are made only by Sony and Panasonic.
Sony has a two-tiered consumer line, the PR and the EX/EXM. These are
the same formulation and differentiated only by the selection process
(more explanation below). Recently added was a higher-grade tape
designed for HD use, the Sony DVM63HD. They also have a professional
line which is really considered DVCAM but is of course compatible with
mini DV and this includes the PDVM-40N/ME and the Digital Master
PDVM-40DM recently named PHDVM-63DM for marketing high-definition usage
purposes. The DVCAM and HD tapes, are qualitatively, better tapes,
offering significantly better specifications not the least of which is
dramatically lower dropout.
Panasonic, likewise, has both consumer and professional products but
all under the "DV" monicker as they haven't paid a license to use the
DVCAM logo although they tout their pro tapes as a DVCAM equivalent.
The consumer line is EJ and XJ and unlike Sony, these are different
formulations. In the professional line for some time we have had the
PQ (Professional Quality) and the MQ (Master Quality), which is soon to
be discontinued in favor of the more expensive AMQ (Advanced Master
Quality). NOTE: Buy MQ's while you can, they will be gone soon we are
told and the AMQ is much more. The formulations of the EJ-PQ and XJ-MQ
are similar but not only is the selection process different but the
shell, mechanism and quality control. THe AMQ is a new bird.
JVC does make consumer, high grade and pro but their higher grade
offerings are overpriced compared to Panasonic.
Here's how tape is made: it is produced in large sheets which are then
inspected and slit into the appropriate widths. In situations where
ONLY the selection process determines what the product is (i.e. not a
different formulation) the product on the ends and sides goes to
consumer as it is less consistent. The product in the middle is more
likely to exceed spec and be "the cream of the crop" and goes to either
pro or high grade as the case may be.
People often ask us which tape is best. Well, Sony mini DV tape is a
consumer product. A consumer product does not generally perform well
against the pro and coincidentally, repair facilities tell me they have
more issues with Sony tape than any other. A quick cost comparison
will reveal the cost of a Panasonic consumer tape is well below that of
a Sony and for about the same price as Sony consumer you can get
Panasonic Pro; furthermore for LESS than the cost of the Sony "high
grade" EX you can get the Panasonic MQ. Better tape, lower price.
Done deal.
Now about wet vs. dry: No one is trying to cover this up. The real
disaster happened early in the days of mini dv when Sony shipped a
bunch of camcorders with one tape and then had no supply. Everyone had
to buy Panasonic tape and then disaster occurred. Since that time the
manufacturers have worked together to alleviate the problem -- after
all, you can choose what you put in your camcorder but if you're making
dubs for others, you don't get to choose what tape they use. So, the
problem is much less of an issue than it ever was.
Still, we always recommend that if you must switch tapes, run a head
cleaner through first. If you have been using one brand for a long
time, also try to run one pass of the new tape to acclimate your heads
to the new version. I often recommend this process for switching from
Sony EX to the Panasonic MQ. We did both Videomaker shows, DV Expos,
Showbiz and WEVA for 10 years and I've had this conversation more times
than I can count and never has anyone come back to me with a complaint
despite a specific invitation to do so.
You can buy any of the consumer varieties for less than $2.50 except
for Fuji I think and the Sony is a little more too. If you want to
step up for a buck more you can get the Pansaonic Pro and while they
last, Panasonic Masters for your critical applications are under $5.
If you are going HDV you may want to consider AMQ or Sony DVCAM or
consumer HD tape.
It is important to remember that dropouts in digital are not like
dropouts in analog where part of your signal is still there. Much like
the digital cell phone service we all have to endure now (Crystal clear
when it's there but often NOT) digital signals, when lost enough to go
beyond the ability of the machine's error correction, are very very bad
- pixelated, blocky messes that can't go unnoticed. In HDV they are
even worse. So if your project is one of importance, use a
qualitatively better product...a bad piece of tape can ruin your shoot
just as easily as a problem with the most expensive camcorder so don't
skimp the couple of bucks on lower-grade products unless your use isn't
critical.
Hope that helps!
cb
www.pro-tape.com
-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com
Richard Crowley
2005-12-26 00:17:54 UTC
Permalink
"Ty Ford" wrote ...
Post by Ty Ford
So where does DVM60PRL sit on the spectrum?
I can't remember for sure, but I think that is the kind we
use at the office for general-purpose shooting. I can look
up the part number when I go back into work.
Mr. Tapeguy
2005-12-26 17:30:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ty Ford
So where does DVM60PRL sit on the spectrum?
Regards,
Sony DVM60PRL is the American version of the standard grade Sony
consumer tape, a standard grade per se in a blue wrapper. The same
tape can be found in different packaging in the DVM60R (red wrapper)
and DVM60PR3 (orange wrapper). It is their least expensive consumer
grade tape.

cb
Mr. Tapeguy
2005-12-27 05:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mr. Tapeguy
Sony DVM60PRL is the American version of the standard grade Sony
consumer tape, a standard grade per se in a blue wrapper. The same
tape can be found in different packaging in the DVM60R (red wrapper)
and DVM60PR3 (orange wrapper). It is their least expensive consumer
grade tape.
cb
Forgot to mention:

DVM60PRL - Blue wrapper, packaged for North American market

DVM60PR3 - Orange wrapper, packaged for European market

DVM60R - Red wrapper, packaged for Asian market

cb
webpa
2006-01-06 17:26:24 UTC
Permalink
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
Richard Crowley
2006-01-06 17:40:08 UTC
Permalink
"webpa" wrote ...
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
Who is "you"? (Most of us aren't reading this in Google)
Mr. Tapeguy
2006-01-07 00:05:59 UTC
Permalink
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
You are correct, all DV tape is metal evaporated. I'm sorry you were
"forced" to stop reading. The density of particles was the focus of
the point I was making, not the formulation although you are correct in
pointing out my error. It would have been more correct to say "density
of particles" which applies to all tape.

However, DVCPro is NOT metal evaporated. It is metal particle. While
this may or may not be an oxide (I'm going to check) it is
distinguished from traditional oxide tapes (betacam non-sp, VHS, etc.).
Regardless it is not ME.

I am going to check and see what the actual chemical designations are.
My understanding that the differences lie more in the production
process than in the chemical designations but I am going to
double-check.
doc
2006-01-12 15:23:41 UTC
Permalink
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.

drd
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
2006-01-12 15:44:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
Bloody nonsense, way lower - and all metals can be made to evaporate
(apart from one or two semi-metals at ambient pressure, which sublime)

Check out your facts before posting again : Here are some exxamples of
"facts" :

http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Barium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Mercury+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lithium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Zinc+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lead+Boiling+Point&var=2
Post by doc
drd
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
William Davis
2006-01-14 07:18:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
Bloody nonsense, way lower - and all metals can be made to evaporate
(apart from one or two semi-metals at ambient pressure, which sublime)
Check out your facts before posting again : Here are some exxamples of
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Barium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Mercury+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lithium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Zinc+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lead+Boiling+Point&var=2
Post by doc
drd
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
I always "thought" that was shorthand for a metal EMULSION applied to
the vinyl tape stock and that it was the emulsion that evaporated
leaving the metal (and the binder) behind to achieve the recording
surface.

Don't really know why I thought that - possibly some long forgotten
reading?

For what it's worth.
doc
2006-01-29 19:46:43 UTC
Permalink
i stand corrected. thanks for the info. however, unless the tape is kept
at 300+ degrees for the lowest i read being mercury, then it wouldn't be
evaporated right?

drd
Post by Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
Bloody nonsense, way lower - and all metals can be made to evaporate
(apart from one or two semi-metals at ambient pressure, which sublime)
Check out your facts before posting again : Here are some exxamples of
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Barium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Mercury+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lithium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Zinc+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lead+Boiling+Point&var=2
Post by doc
drd
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
2006-01-29 22:05:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by doc
i stand corrected. thanks for the info. however, unless the tape is kept
at 300+ degrees for the lowest i read being mercury, then it wouldn't be
evaporated right?
Wrong again. A vapour is formed when a component's vapour pressure
exceeds that of the ambient pressure. So, by reducing the pressure way
below atmospheric pressure, you can get a metal to 'boil' far far
below what you'd think was it's boiling point.

Even more interestingly, metals and other solids have a small but
finite vapour pressure even at room temperature. So if you're say 80%
of the point where a substance would 'boil' at a given temperature,
there's an increasing likelihood of significant amounts of vapour in
the area.

HTH
Cheers - Neil
Post by doc
drd
Post by Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media]
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
Bloody nonsense, way lower - and all metals can be made to evaporate
(apart from one or two semi-metals at ambient pressure, which sublime)
Check out your facts before posting again : Here are some exxamples of
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Barium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Mercury+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lithium+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Zinc+Boiling+Point&var=2
http://www.noblemind.com/search.exe?keyword=Lead+Boiling+Point&var=2
Post by doc
drd
Post by webpa
Sorry. I was forced to stop reading your essay when you described
"oxide particles" on DV tape. AFAIK, there is NO oxide coated (miniDV,
DVCPro, etc) tape. It is all coated with a film of evaporated metal
(among other things).
FLY135
2006-01-12 16:50:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
drd
Hmmm, seems like you would take a sec to google on "evaporated metal"
before posting something like this. Just to make sure... you know what
I mean?
doc
2006-01-29 19:46:43 UTC
Permalink
metal powder maybe, but evaporated metal can't exist on a tape at ambient
temperature. know what i mean?

drd
Post by FLY135
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
drd
Hmmm, seems like you would take a sec to google on "evaporated metal"
before posting something like this. Just to make sure... you know what
I mean?
Richard Crowley
2006-01-12 18:04:05 UTC
Permalink
"doc" wrote ...
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but
it can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
We've been evaporating various metals (gold, aluminum, copper,
etc.) for several decades now in large-scale industrial settings.
The computer you are reading this on wouldn't exist unless people
could easily evaporate and deposit metal. Google is your friend.

The filament in your CRT (and/or the incandescent light over your
head) are both evaporating as you read this sentence. Good thing
they're in a vacuum. Else they would oxidize really quickly! :-)
Gene E. Bloch
2006-01-17 23:36:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Richard Crowley
"doc" wrote ...
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but it
can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
We've been evaporating various metals (gold, aluminum, copper,
etc.) for several decades now in large-scale industrial settings.
The computer you are reading this on wouldn't exist unless people
could easily evaporate and deposit metal. Google is your friend.
The filament in your CRT (and/or the incandescent light over your
head) are both evaporating as you read this sentence. Good thing
they're in a vacuum. Else they would oxidize really quickly! :-)
Not to mention mercury, which evaporates a bit at room temperature, and
is for this reason rather dangerous to have around, since its vapor is
very toxic.

I built my first reflector telescope around 1948 or 1949. After I
ground, polished, and figured the mirror, I sent it off to a place
which coated it with aluminum by placing it in a vacuum chamber and
evaporating enough Al to coat my mirror with a very smooth, thin, and
shiny coating.

Gino
--
Gene E. Bloch (Gino)
letters617blochg3251
(replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom")
doc
2006-01-29 19:51:18 UTC
Permalink
thanks for the info, but i don't need to know about evaporating metal, i
worked in metal refining for nearly 20 years as a consultant, what i do know
is that evaporative metal cannont exist on a tape, but it's resultant oxide
during its' return to liquid or solid (or pure if kept from oxygen) but
unlikely if a fine powder and thusly applied to a tape. therein, one does
not have a metal but in fact an oxide. if for example, the metal were
chromium, then the melting point and later the evaporative point would be
HIGH, which of course does not exist on a tape.

drd
Post by Richard Crowley
"doc" wrote ...
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but
it can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
We've been evaporating various metals (gold, aluminum, copper,
etc.) for several decades now in large-scale industrial settings.
The computer you are reading this on wouldn't exist unless people
could easily evaporate and deposit metal. Google is your friend.
The filament in your CRT (and/or the incandescent light over your
head) are both evaporating as you read this sentence. Good thing
they're in a vacuum. Else they would oxidize really quickly! :-)
s***@msn.com
2006-01-31 04:06:14 UTC
Permalink
Hey, folks, can't we just get along? This thread has developed a life
of its own, which has little, if anything pertaining to the original
post about MiniDV tape lubrication problems.

In an effort to get back to the original issue, I offer the following
post of my own, based upon my personal, first hand experience, not an
urban legend:

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.video.desktop/browse_frm/thread/fcc8fed78c58ee23/3f07c85c55dba56a?lnk=st&q=group%3Arec.video.desktop+author%3Asandyprice%40msn.com&rnum=13&hl=en#3f07c85c55dba56a


"It sure didn't take many Panasonic tapes through my VX-1000 to clog
the heads up bad enough so that when I sent it in for it's first
annual service (I used the Sony head cleaning tape 3-4 times during
the first year to keep it going), the service report had written in
bold printing across the face something to the effect of "USE ONLY
SONY TAPES" or "DO NOT MIX TAPE BRANDS" or some such. The Sony repair
station technician could obviously tell from the remaining debris in
it that it had seen more than one brand tape. In the subsequent 5
years I have only used Sony tapes and have NEVER had to use the head
cleaning tape again ;-) (And never received another love note from
the technicians!)

Mike
Post by doc
thanks for the info, but i don't need to know about evaporating metal, i
worked in metal refining for nearly 20 years as a consultant, what i do know
is that evaporative metal cannont exist on a tape, but it's resultant oxide
during its' return to liquid or solid (or pure if kept from oxygen) but
unlikely if a fine powder and thusly applied to a tape. therein, one does
not have a metal but in fact an oxide. if for example, the metal were
chromium, then the melting point and later the evaporative point would be
HIGH, which of course does not exist on a tape.
drd
Post by Richard Crowley
"doc" wrote ...
Post by doc
hmmmmm, "evaporated metal" - - metal doesn't evaporate. it oxidizes but
it can not evaporate. would take 5000 degrees.
We've been evaporating various metals (gold, aluminum, copper,
etc.) for several decades now in large-scale industrial settings.
The computer you are reading this on wouldn't exist unless people
could easily evaporate and deposit metal. Google is your friend.
The filament in your CRT (and/or the incandescent light over your
head) are both evaporating as you read this sentence. Good thing
they're in a vacuum. Else they would oxidize really quickly! :-)
Martin Heffels
2006-01-31 08:40:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@msn.com
In an effort to get back to the original issue, I offer the following
post of my own, based upon my personal, first hand experience, not an
Unlucky you. I mix Sony and Panasonic-tapes frequently without any problems
in my TRV900. Only when I throw in TDK (which I never do anymore), I get
problems.

cheers

-martin-
--
Never be afraid to try something new.
Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark.
A large group of professionals built the Titanic.
Ty Ford
2006-01-31 13:51:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by s***@msn.com
Hey, folks, can't we just get along? This thread has developed a life
of its own, which has little, if anything pertaining to the original
post about MiniDV tape lubrication problems.
In an effort to get back to the original issue, I offer the following
post of my own, based upon my personal, first hand experience, not an
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.video.desktop/browse_frm/thread/fcc8fed78c5
8ee23/3f07c85c55dba56a?lnk=st&q=group%3Arec.video.desktop+author%3Asandyprice%
Post by s***@msn.com
40msn.com&rnum=13&hl=en#3f07c85c55dba56a
"It sure didn't take many Panasonic tapes through my VX-1000 to clog
the heads up bad enough so that when I sent it in for it's first
annual service (I used the Sony head cleaning tape 3-4 times during
the first year to keep it going), the service report had written in
bold printing across the face something to the effect of "USE ONLY
SONY TAPES" or "DO NOT MIX TAPE BRANDS" or some such. The Sony repair
station technician could obviously tell from the remaining debris in
it that it had seen more than one brand tape. In the subsequent 5
years I have only used Sony tapes and have NEVER had to use the head
cleaning tape again ;-) (And never received another love note from
the technicians!)
Mike
We Have a winner! As the originator of this thread, I call it time to head to
the bar.

Regards,

Ty Ford






-- Ty Ford's equipment reviews, audio samples, rates and other audiocentric
stuff are at www.tyford.com

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does it matter if i switch between mini dv tape brands for my vx1000?
started 2008-09-21 21:34:53 UTC
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